Ryan Day, Billy Fessler reveal the most important variable in picking Ohio State’s next quarterback: Buckeye Talk podcast

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- After two days of spring practice, Ohio State’s quarterbacks and running backs spoke with the media as the two position groups hoped to have new stars emerge.

For the quarterbacks, it was a chance to not talk about the looming battle since no one seems to be focused on that element of this offseason. Instead, it turned into conversations about replacing Will Howard’s best skill as QB1 in 2024.

For the running backs, it was the debut of a brand new room that position coach Carlos Locklyn thinks has a chance to be deeper than what he had in 2024.

On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis discuss what they heard. Plus three revelations after two spring practices.

Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:03.742)

Welcome back to Buckeye Talk, I’m Stephen Means, that’s the front cry snake and that’s Andrew Gillis. We talked with the quarterbacks and the running backs after watching Ohio State’s second day of spring practice. We’ve been texting out a lot of stuff, so get that 614-350-3315, two-week pre-trial 399 after that. We’re gonna start with the quarterback talk, then we’re gonna talk running backs, and then we’re just gonna talk about some revelations we’ve had after two days of practice, which essentially we didn’t see a lot, but you can still learn, even if you don’t see a whole lot.

Stefan, I have a question for you. Based off the way Ryan Day talked on Monday and based off the way Julian Sand and Taven St. Clair and Lincoln Keenholz were talking on Wednesday afternoon, Billy Fessler was talking Wednesday afternoon. If I asked you Ohio State starting quarterback battle is going to come down to this variable, insert what the variable is and why.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:13.484)

I think the top one’s leadership because that’s all we’re hearing about. And because I think that’s what Will Howard is maybe, I want to say like reminded this coaching staff of, but maybe kind of reaffirmed to this coaching staff of how important leadership at that position is. And it’s just, it’s interesting because obviously leadership is a valuable trait that quarterbacks need to have. It’s kind of.

It comes with the position. comes with the title of being QB one, right? Like I think we would even, all of us would probably say that Devin Brown was a decent leader on this team last season and he was QB two. Like that, that’s a trait that just kind of comes with the quarterback position, but maybe Will Howard had that trait in a way that surprised overwhelmed, whatever the adjective you want to use in describing it is.

with this coaching staff like that stood out to them where I think we can all say, will Howard’s not maybe necessarily the most talented guy that’s come through that quarterback room. mean, guys like Justin Fields and CJ Stroud and Dwayne Haskins, like they’ve been first round picks and they’ve been very talented guys where you’re talking about arm strength or legs or whatever it be. Will Howard maybe isn’t that in that level as some of those guys in those areas. But when it comes to leadership, he’s maybe one of the best that we’ve seen.

Not just at Ohio state, but maybe in, recent college football history, right? Like think about quarterbacks that have led teams and national titles. Like, you know, there’s, there’s not a lot that have had sure fire leadership traits the way that will Howard had. So it’s clear that that is something that’s become important to this coaching staff and is going to be a very valuable thing this spring. And maybe there’s part of me that’s wondering like how much that’s even going to provide and

answer because you’re never going to get to the Will Howard bar. Like no one’s there is not going to be any point between now and August where Julian Sane, who’s never started college football game before, is going to do something where you say, boom, same exact leadership as Will Howard. Like that’s you’re not going to get there with Lincoln. You’re definitely not going to get there with Tavian, who’s a true freshman. Like that’s always going to lack with this group compared to Will Howard. But on the flip side, if spring practice is going to be structured in the way that it is and

Stefan Krajisnik (03:33.271)

We’ve done two practices now without pads at pretty sure in the near future. Did they say on Friday, Steven, I think we’re going to have pads on. So it’s about to pick up differently than what we’ve seen, but I don’t think there’s going to be enough in this spring where we say that guy’s just so talented, understands this offense so well, throws the ball so well, does this, does that where boom, he’s a starting quarterback. But you could kind of off the field, maybe separate yourself a bit.

And if leadership is such a big thing for this coaching staff, when it comes to that position, what they do off the field might be just as important as what they do on the field for at least for the next several weeks. And that’s maybe an area where someone can separate themselves a bit. So maybe the, the QB competition is, is more about that because that’s all you’re going to really get from the spring.

Stephen Means (04:23.526)

Yes, they’re putting the pats on on Friday.

Stephen Means (04:29.47)

don’t know how to talk about the quarterback value, Andrew. Because.

I don’t know. I don’t know how to talk about Billy Fessler said that Will Howard won his command of the offense. I think that’s like that’s a football thing command of the offense as a quarterback.

Stephen Means (04:51.026)

But if Will Howard raised the bar in a way that it feels like we talk about him as a leader the same way we talk about Justin Fields as a runner and CJ Stroud as a processor. But also Will Howard is 23 years old when he was the Ohio State started quarterback who had been around the block a couple of times and he had spent plenty of time over the last year.

telling us about the moments when he was younger, when he wasn’t this poised, when he wasn’t this good of a leader, when he didn’t handle things the right way all the time. And so when you’re looking at Julian and you’re looking at Lincoln and Tavian, that’s their example.

But they’re not 23 year old, three and a half year starting quarterbacks. What are realistic expectations for them as leaders in 2025? Because as you guys went, there’s not football talk here. This isn’t a you got to be able to have the arm strength. You got to be able to have the natural God given talent because they all have that or they wouldn’t be here. Right. Billy Fester got asked, how do you know they’re going to be able to handle what comes with being the Ohio State coach? He was talking about how they vet that process during the recruiting trail. So this is not a

talent conversation. This isn’t a tangible conversation. This is an intangible conversation. How does a quarterback room full of guys who don’t seem like they’re the most vocal people by nature go about winning a job that requires you to be the up most vocal, the utmost seen in the most heard and utmost felt person in the program?

Andrew (06:24.782)

Well, I think the number one thing is authenticity. think all the things that Ryan Day said are true, where it’s you need your quarterback to be the hardest worker on the team. You need your quarterback to be first guy in, last guy out. Someone people can look up to someone can people or someone people can look at their their work ethic and say, wow, like those things are true. And those things have to happen, obviously. But I think. You know, like we talked about Will Howard, Will Howard was able to say.

When I was in this situation, dot dot dot, and whatever that dot dot dot is, whatever that situation was, he was able to speak from experience. I mean, what is Julian saying gonna say? Hey guys, when I was holding the clipboard against Oregon, and I saw us go out to that big lead, that’s when I, like, it doesn’t sound right, you know? So I think, you know,

That is, think, one of the things you have to be. You have to, you know, I said this in one of our videos right afterwards. You know, you kind of need to be authentically yourself. You can’t fake that. You know, you have to be somebody that people can look up to and people can model themselves after. But if you try to be Will Howard, you’re going to fail. If you try to be I mean, and this was true years ago with if you try to be JT Barrett, you’re probably going to fail. If you try to be Dwayne Haskins, you’re probably going to fail. If you try to be.

know, CJ Stroud or Justin Fields or Caramel Cord, like if you just model yourselves directly after somebody that was there, especially in an off the field type of role, it’s not probably going to go the way that you want. So you want, you know, these kids to be themselves and lead in the manner that they think is best because that’s how you get the most results out of it. That’s how you get, you know, people to, to follow you. So that, that I think has to be, you know, the, expectation here with these guys is that

You know, yeah, those things are, you know, the true about the, you know, working hard and like that, that should be a given, but you need players that are, are quarterbacks that are in this room that are going to lead in true characteristics to their personality. Like, well, like, don’t think anybody looked at Will Howard throughout the year and went, Oh, this is fake. Oh, this isn’t who he is. Oh, this isn’t, you know, what Will Howard’s all about. I think we all kind of looked at it and went, Oh, well, I would just like this.

Andrew (08:47.694)

Well, you need to be able to say that about Julian Sane or you need to be able to say that about Lincoln Keynotes or Tabian St. Clair just in whatever manner that happens and that manifests itself.

Stephen Means (09:03.614)

I don’t know, maybe I’m just.

Let me ask you a step up because you were at Julian saying the entire time. How did he handle the quite all the questions about? Hey, you know how you feel about everybody thinking you’re gonna be the next starting quarterback.

Stefan Krajisnik (09:19.832)

He handled it in a very coach speak way. If coach speak can translate to players, he handled it in a very, I’m not going to say the wrong thing type of way. He handled it in a way that made me think, boy, do I miss when Will Howard was in front of the microphone. Cause he could say anything and anything he wanted to, and it would always be entertaining. And I think Julian’s learning that. Cause there is an aspect to being the Ohio state quarterback of

Stephen Means (09:27.006)

player speak.

Stefan Krajisnik (09:49.689)

talking to the media, right? Like I understand press conferences can only get you so far in life, right? Like you’re not gonna win a Heisman by winning the press conference, but at the same time, like.

Stephen Means (10:00.67)

No, I’m not gonna say that.

Stefan Krajisnik (10:03.445)

There is marketing, you’re right. There is some marketing that goes into, but you’re not gonna be a Heisman contender just because you won the press conference. Let’s say that, let’s say that.

Stephen Means (10:05.502)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (10:12.744)

He’s going to have to, if he’s the starting quarterback and for, we, saw Tavia and we saw Lincoln both talk today. I was just at Julian salt. I’ll speak on that side of it. Like if he’s the starting quarterback, he’s going to have to do this once or actually two times a week where he gets in front of the microphone and he fields questions. And right now I think he just doesn’t want to say the wrong thing because you are competing. You don’t want to go out there and say something that makes it seem like you’ve won the job. You don’t want to make it seem like you’re cocky that you’re going to win the job or that you should win the job.

But it’s going to be interesting to watch him grow in that sense too because...

Players and coaches see these press conferences. They see the way you talk about the team publicly and the way you talk about teammates publicly like.

What do you say after a tough loss? Will Howard, thought after the Michigan game, when they lost and he didn’t say a ton, but it felt like he said a lot of the right things of just, he was mad and he could have said a lot of things to light a lot of people up, but he was basically just saying like, we’re going to come back from this. We’re going to come back to this. I’m pissed. I let this team down. We’re going to come back. Like basically he said all the right things. Like can Julian be a good enough leader to where he has a pulse of this team?

And when he steps up there, he knows how to say the right things. Like that’s where the press conference is important. Do you as a quarterback understand the pulse of your team and your teammates and your coaches and the fans and everything when you go up there? I think right now he’s kind of just like, not going to say too much because I’m not going to get in trouble. I’m not going to say something wrong, but like that’s going to be another part of his development. Can you speak for the team? Do you understand what the team, what the mood is? What, whatever, whatever may be going into that.

Stefan Krajisnik (11:55.405)

Do you understand that it could portray that in a way in front of media that isn’t going to tick a lot of people off or that isn’t going to be the wrong thing to say? I think that’s part of the learning process.

Stephen Means (12:06.558)

Because he’s 19 years old and he’s still learning how to do that. Just like Justin Fields was 19 years old learning how to do that. And CJ Schell was 19 years old learning how to do that. CJ didn’t always do the best job of it. He’s admitted to that, that he was trying too hard to do what you’re talking about, Stefan, instead of just being himself. Somebody also brought this up while we were in there today, and I didn’t even think about this. He doesn’t know us, and we don’t know him. And I’m saying that because I’m going to compare him directly to Taven St. Clair’s.

who I was at for a little bit. I was jumping around today to be completely honest with you. Stefan said he was hanging out with Julian Zana. I said, cool. Beat writers had the future starting quarterback. Cool, that’s taken care of. I’m gonna hop around and do the whole columnist thing. And Andrew, you were at Tavon for at least the beginning of it. And maybe you will agree, maybe you won’t agree. Tavon handled this very well today. I thought he...

For again, for whatever winning the press conference means, I thought Taveon for his introduction to the Ohio State beat as a now official Ohio State football player handled it well. Yes or no? Very quick answer. Do you agree?

Andrew (13:16.279)

Yes.

Stephen Means (13:18.182)

Now, here’s the reason why he handled it so well. Because he knows everybody. Yeah, he knows everybody. Literally. And it plays into what maybe might be his advantage to whatever it means. And Billy Fester shot down a lot of it. But there are some things like Julian, like David St. Clair isn’t like the rest of the true freshman where he doesn’t know where the bathroom is. He knows where the bathroom is because he’s been in the building for two years. Right. He knows where he’s going.

Andrew (13:21.07)

I’m gonna agree with this too, by the way.

Stephen Means (13:47.068)

He sat in these meetings before. Was he always applying it? No, I agree with Fessal. He wasn’t practicing. He was just at practice. He wasn’t, you know, compartmentalizing what he was seeing and what he was learning in those classrooms because while he’s seeing it up close and personal, he’s still trying to master his offense at Bell Fountain. So there’s only so much he’s taking it in, but he is at least being introduced to all of this. He said, I asked him about that concept and he said,

The big thing is they know how I learn, right? Because all of these relationships have been established. Billy Fessler, when they first started talking at Taveon St. Clair, Billy Fessler was here as a GA for the first time in 2021 before he left for Akron. So that relationship’s not new. The Ryan Day relationship obviously isn’t new. A lot of the offensive coaching staff isn’t new. And when you’ve been committed for two years, this is what you get. When you’ve been committed for two years and you live 45 minutes from the campus,

This is what you get. A kid who, I don’t know, is he 4 % more prepared than he would have been had he not been living in Bel Fountain if he was from Florida or had just committed six months ago? But that 4 % is a significant jump in comparison to, I don’t know, Zion Grady, who’s from Alabama and committed over the summer, right? That’s a jump.

But also he knows everybody in the room already. So he’s been comfortable. Andrew, you made this point while we were standing around. This dude’s been doing media because he hasn’t been behind them. He hasn’t been behind the wall of Ohio State. So if you just go up to Bel Fountain, you can talk to him. Now, obviously there were people around him who made sure he just wasn’t doing any old little thing and whatnot. I, point. This isn’t new to Tavion.

Andrew (15:24.325)

That’s exactly what I was going to say, yeah.

Stephen Means (15:42.642)

It’s not new to Julian sand either. He was the best quarterback in his recruiting class. He’s from California. He’s done media before, but during the recruiting process, we weren’t the media he was talking to. He wasn’t talking to people who cover Ohio state recruiting. He was talking to people who cover USC recruiting and UCLA recruiting and Oregon recruiting. And then when he committed to Bama Bama recruiting, cause you got to remember his backstory is he committed to Alabama.

and was done. And Ohio State had Dylan Raola. And then in December, Dylan Raola, I’m saying like literally 48 hours after Jeremiah Smith committed. I’m so serious. 48 hours after Jeremiah Smith committed, Dylan Raola said, nah, I’m good. Six months after he committed. So now Ohio State’s back on the market for a quarterback. The first call they made, well, one of the first calls they made was Julian Sand, and they offered him.

and Corey Dennis went out to see him and that conversation ended with Julian Sand going, thank you. I appreciate you guys, but I want to go play for Nick Saban. I got him on the phone. I wrote about it. I talked to him. He said, great offer. I love those guys. I’m going to go play for Saban. And then Saban didn’t exist anymore. So he hopped in the porch. So he has zero. I he exists, but not in the coaching world. Stephon made a face.

So he has no relation with any of us. So that was, I know we got him last fall, Andrew, but this was real now, right? We got him last fall while also Will Howard and Devin Brown and Aaron Nolan and Lincoln Kinnos. There was a lot going on. So he was like an interesting side story. Now he is the story, which is why Stefan, everybody was huddled around him while he was out there. That was a different situation for him. And he’s trying to get accustomed to that in a way where ironically enough,

The true freshman already knows what it is. So I do expect him to maybe get a little bit more comfortable and not be, I wouldn’t say he was uptight today. It’s just, he said all the right things, all the quotables, all the coach speak things. And I do wonder if over the next year that changes at all as we get to know him more. And more importantly, as he gets to know us as a beat a little bit more. Cause I don’t know how many of us he has an actual genuine relationship with.

Stefan Krajisnik (18:02.486)

What an

Stefan Krajisnik (18:06.616)

Yeah. And right now he’s talking from the aspect of he’s trying to win a job, right? Like he’s got a lot to lose if he says the wrong thing. Like if we’ll Howard had gotten, you know, gone up to the microphone after beating Nebraska and said the wrong thing, it’s like, well, what are you going to do? Bench him? Like he’s still the starting quarterback of the team. Like Julian Sands trying to win a position battle here. He’s also like, he’s also trying to respect his teammates. Like he got asked pretty straightforward. Hey, people kind of view you as the heir apparent to the quarterback room. Now that will Howard’s gone.

Stephen Means (18:10.407)

Right.

Stefan Krajisnik (18:35.928)

And he was kind of just like, yeah, I don’t listen to the outside noise. Like, what do want them to say? Like, this is not me, like fashion, the question. think it’s a, it’s a fair question. was a good question, but it’s like, what, what answer is he going to give you outside of like, I’m not listening to the outside noise. And then later he’s going to go on and talk about how good Tavian is, how good Julia or how good Lincoln is, how they’re competing, how they’re friends, but they’re competitive. Cause you know, obviously they’re competing for the same job. Like he said everything you’re going to say in that situation. Cause if he goes up there and what like,

says that he’s far and away the best quarterback in the room. Like what is that? That’s not particularly like leadership skill, but then, but then in October when you win the starting job and people are, you know, maybe criticizing you and whatever may happen, like he has full ready to go up there be like, I’m the best quarterback in the country. Like what are you all talking about? Like then you can do that because then you’ve got nothing to lose and then you can start campaigning for yourself. Right now it’s like campaigning for yourself means showing that you’re a captain, showing that you’re a leader.

Stephen Means (19:10.878)

Stop or duck.

Stefan Krajisnik (19:34.457)

just because you’re a quarterback. there’s, he’s got a ton to lose right now and he has to be careful. Also it’s a, mentioned Julian, like the crowd around him. I felt bad for Isaiah West. We’ll talk about the running backs in a second, but like he had just sat down and started his interview right when Julian Sayne walked in and I felt bad. Like everyone kind of got up and like politely was like, Hey, I’m going to go to that table because there’s a quarterback at that table. But like that, that’s just the reality of it. Like that is life now for Julian Sayne is people are getting up.

Stephen Means (19:50.604)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (19:57.736)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (20:03.096)

to go talk to you and like, that’s just some of the things that I have to learn to do.

Andrew (20:06.51)

Well, that was that was Carlos Loughlin. Well, yeah, yeah, Carlos Loughlin. So I’m over there with Carlos Loughlin. It was me, maybe Bill Landis, Joey Kaufman and somebody else. And like, we’re over there and everybody else is at the quarterbacks. And like after like seven minutes, I just kind of like you just kind of like, you know, the like the way these things work, it’s a little inside baseball. But, you know, everybody asks their questions. You kind of look at the other reporters, you like the head nod, like, I’m good. Are you good? I’m good. Are you good? And everybody’s kind of going around.

Stephen Means (20:06.728)

Julian said have more people at him than Carlos Loughlin did.

Andrew (20:36.502)

And then Carlos just kind of leans back in his chair and he was just like, is that it? Pulls out his phone, starts looking at his phone and he’s not getting up because it’s only been like seven minutes. And he looks over and he goes like, hey, Jerry, am I done? And he just yells down like, and Jerry was like, if you’re if they’re done, you’re done. And he stands up and he looks at the two tables and he goes, I see where y’all love at. And obviously he didn’t know that we had two Cleveland dot com staffers at the other side. So I went.

Hey, Carlos, you got to look at who’s around here. You got to start taking note of who’s actually listening to what you’re saying. But it was like, that is the life of what Lincoln and Tavian and Julian are going to have to do where, you know, Ohio State has, you know, really intriguing running back questions. Like Stephen was saying, like right after we were done, he was like, the running back position is like really interesting.

and how they’re going to use them and what these guys are like and all this other stuff. Maybe this is a good segue into that part of podcast, but it’s like, it doesn’t almost matter sometimes because everything these guys say is going to be under the microscope. And like Stefan said, that takes leadership and, that takes kind of character to kind of understand what these guys are saying as well.

Stephen Means (21:46.45)

think the funniest thing about that is Julian wraps up, so we’re all walking back over there. And all I see is Carlos Loughlin yelling and he goes, just like there’s no music without R &B, you can’t have football without R &B. Carlos Loughlin is a special man. He is a character. He’s great. Zero complaints with Carlos Loughlin. Zero complaints whatsoever.

Stefan Krajisnik (22:06.54)

He’s great.

Stefan Krajisnik (22:11.992)

I want to say one more thing about the quarterback thing. And I think that’s probably the extent of maybe what we have to talk about here. Like there’s not going to be a ton to say about this competition in the spring. I’m going to be quite honest. Like I just, I, yes, I think Steven, you and I are in agreement and I’m sure Andrew’s somewhere there with us too. We’re like, this doesn’t have to be a competition that goes into August. Like Ryan day can end spring practice by naming Julian saying the starting quarterback and we can all just be like, okay, like, you know, this was all kind of.

Stephen Means (22:25.918)

That’s the revelation.

Stefan Krajisnik (22:42.008)

decorative, but we, all knew who the charter was going to be at the end of this, but like, that’s just not going to happen. I think the way practice is structured, it’s just not going to happen. It’s clear that they’re looking for a ton off the field that I don’t think it’s going to get established. I mean, the spring showcases in less than a month. Like we’re just, I just don’t know how much is going to be left to say about this quarterback competition. And I understand like it’s the position people care about most. We’re going to come on here quite a bit and talk about the quarterbacks the next three weeks. I’m sure.

At some point there’ll be a padded practice and someone’s going to do something intriguing and there’s going be something to talk about. like overall, I just, I just don’t know how much there is with this quarterback competition over the course of spring practice.

Stephen Means (23:22.334)

Let me tell you why. Because the thing that’s going to decide it can’t be decided in 15 practices. And it’s Will Howard’s fault.

Stephen Means (23:36.156)

The guy we think is going to replace Will Howard is the polar opposite of Will Howard. Seriously, Will Howard was old. This guy’s young. Will Howard was a lowly raily recruit who had to climb his way to the top. This guy was the best quarterback in his recruiting class who was at Bama. Well, I was at Kansas State. He’s from downtown Pennsylvania.

This guy’s from Southern California and he was coming to the Bama. Will Howard is six foot five, 235 plus pounds and can run. Julian San is six foot one ish and 204 pounds ish. Will Howard was comfortable in every aspect there is to be a leader.

Julian saying admitted I asked him how’s that going on? It’s not easy. He’s not that comfortable Julian Sands got some of the best arm talent I’ve seen at Ohio State and I watched Dwayne Haskins Justin Fields and CJ Stroud throw football here He’s got one of the quicker releases I’ve ever seen in my life and Billy Spencer was even admitting to that but he also said you can’t sacrifice arm strength for

quickness of release. they’re working on that, working on strengthening his core, getting his footwork work and getting them to the point. Cause again, what’s the point of having Jeremiah Smith as a deep threat? Cardinal said as a deep threat and you can send Brandon Innes on slot phase if the quarterback can’t get it there. Right. We saw, mean, we spent all last year talking about the deep ball with Will Howard.

Will Howard, arm talent, was questionable at times. In every way that you could describe quarterback, Will Howard and Julian Sand are opposites.

Stephen Means (25:35.976)

So that’s why this is not going to be decided in 15 practices and why there’s not much more to Stefan’s point to talk about. It’s a constant update of how the leadership is going. You know, as Billy Fester said, it’s about consistency. It’s cool and easy to go out there and feel motivated by this is what it takes to win the job.

When on Monday, Ryan Day’s talking about you gotta be the hardest worker first in the building, last out the door, all that stuff. Of course they were gonna come out on Wednesday and be motivated. But what happens in practice 11? What happens in June? What happens in the dog days of August? Julian Sand has to learn how to do the things Will Howard was elite at. And so does Lincoln Kinnos and so does David and St. Clair. So I’m not discounting them. But what I am saying is,

The guy we all think is next is the polar opposite of a guy who just won a national championship here.

So the coaches are living off of that. That is what it looks like. Will Howard isn’t the most talented quarterback Ryan Day’s had, but he’s the most important because he validated the entire Ryan Day experience. He validated that Ryan Day’s quarterback expertise doesn’t have to look like CJ Stroud, Justin Fields, and Dwayne Haskins who are super talented already. I can take a guy like Will Howard in that background and turn him into an elite player too. Will Howard’s the guy who won a national championship and left no doubt. So now Ryan Day has all the benefit of the.

Will Howard is now the quarterback who is going to be the model when it comes down to this is the deciding factor in a world where all of you guys have NFL talent. Will Howard is to Ryan Day what Tim Tebow is to Urban Meyer. Congratulations.

Stephen Means (27:28.178)

And now we’ll take a break and we’ll talk about some running backs here on Puckett’s Law.

Stephen Means (27:34.718)

We’re back here on Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Kreisnick, and Andrew Gillis after talking with the quarterbacks and the running backs and watching the second day of Ohio State’s spring practice. They’ve got 13 left.

Stephen Means (27:47.8)

Andrew CJ Donaldson

Andrew (27:52.907)

is a football player.

Stephen Means (27:53.031)

Wow.

Stephen Means (27:56.382)

He’s an intriguing football player. What was your thoughts on him pre-Monday? And what are your thoughts on what his role could look like after you’ve seen him practice for two days and heard him talk about why he is here and what type of physical development he’s gone under over the last two and a half months.

Andrew (28:20.75)

Um, that’s a good question. Um, you know, I think pre Monday, you probably start to think like, Oh, this is Ron Dane, right? Like, thank you. think, you know, Carlos, or he said that he was listed at like two 43 when he showed up. He’s currently listed as I hold my roster here, uh, two 37. That is at least his listed weight.

And then Carlos Loughlin today said he’s at 226. So that’s pretty significant. showed, you know, 243 to 226 at that position is a really interesting kind of physical change, I guess you could say. So you kind of, I think, have this anticipation of like, this is what this guy is going to be.

He’s going to be your short yardage between the tackles. Almost you don’t want to say wildcat running back, but like, you know, guy that was just going to get the ball in the low red zone and give you your short yardage touches and all those things. And now that he’s a little bit lighter and the way that Carlos Loughlin talked about him today, I don’t know how accurate that pre-Monday assessment is by me or by anybody else. And I think, you know, one of the words that

Carlos used to describe CJ was slasher. And I think that’s pretty interesting. We’ll see. You I asked Carlos like straight up, I said, when you go to the portal, do you look for just the best running back you can find? Or are you interested in diversifying your skill set? Do you try to bring in different styles of running backs? And he goes, yeah, you never want to recruit the same running back. You never want to go get, you know, the same type of player. Okay.

Well, what does that mean for he and James Peeples? Because James Peeples is 5′10″, 203 and CJ Donaldson would then be 6′1″, 226. So Donaldson to me definitely feels a little bit like that Quinshawn type of role and Peeples definitely feels like that Trevion type of role. They might not fit those players exactly, but I think that might be what we’re looking at. I think that might be

Andrew (30:42.296)

kind of the style in which they’re used. I’m not saying that their play styles are gonna be similar. I’m just saying that I think Donaldson might be your maybe more in the tackles guy, your guy that can make one cut and get up field, whereas Peoples might be the guy that you use in pass protections and pass pro and things like that, and pass sets where he goes out and can catch his passes. I think we had this idea of what CJ Donaldson was gonna be.

But I think today definitely kind of gave you the idea and the mentality of like, this is not a one trick pony. This is somebody who who’s probably going to be able to do a bunch of different things. And I think Ohio State has its one to punch. And now it’s just finding out, OK, what does CJ do differently that made Carlos Loughlin want to go get him? And we’re going to find that out maybe in fall camp, maybe in the spring.

at least in the regular season. So that to me is what I’m looking for next.

Stephen Means (31:45.886)

So if I think there’s gonna be more of a hierarchy than there was last year, I don’t think it’ll be one a one B, probably like what we got with trade round and quinch on. But I think there’s room for three running backs to get a healthy amount of carries where I don’t just mean meaningful carries where last year, Quinch on had 194, Traveon had 144, James people only had 49. I mean more like RB one has 160 RB two has

125, RB3 has 80. I think we could be living in that world for Ohio State based on not just the talent that’s in the room, but the way Carlos Lachlan talks about what his vision is at running.

Stefan Krajisnik (32:31.67)

Yeah, I think I’m more confident now that James peoples and CJ Donaldson can be closer to Travion and Quincheon than maybe I thought, you know, like, like you were asking Andrew before Monday. Like I thought it was going to be maybe more of just CJ and situational roles. But I think when those two guys in this case being James and CJ aren’t all American level players in this case, Travion and Quincheon.

Then there is room for a third guy to be more useful than James Peeples was in 2024. think someone is going to emerge as that third guy. And I don’t know if it’s going to be freshman Bo Jackson or sophomore Sam Williams Dixon that kind of emerges as that third option. Sam Williams Dixon is really intriguing to me because I think Bo Jackson is going to be the better running back. And I think by the end of season, he’s the third best running back in this room.

But I don’t think James or CJ or Bo yet from what I’ve seen has quite that Travion explosiveness type that Sam Williams Dixon has to where I wonder if he is the third option that emerges that he is your third down right before or not third down, but right before halftime, here’s a screen pass. Let someone take off. Is that Sam Williams Dixon? Like

There is going to be room for a third guy to emerge. And maybe that third guy is more situational, right? Like maybe CJ and James, they control the workload and the third guy is kind of what they use situation. Cause James, even last year, wasn’t even like situational. was, I he was a mop up duty guy, guess, like is basically what his role was. Like, I don’t think that’s what that is. I think the third, third running back on this year’s running back on this year’s roster is going to be used in serious minutes.

in serious roles in serious situations. And I think maybe because of what James and CJ already give you, maybe Sam Williams is the guy that emerges. But to answer your question pretty directly, there is going to be more room for a third running back this year than in years past or last year, I should say.

Stephen Means (34:45.31)

George has done that in the past where they’ve had multiple running backs involved with what they were doing. And I mean, George’s is what the Ohio State did last year. George has been doing, but in 2022, not only remember this because when we were preparing for the peach bowl that year, we knew that Georgia had essentially I got three running back system where nobody was the lead dog. It was just more of a

It was the most by committee thing I’ve ever seen. Kenny McIntosh that year had 150 carries for 829 yards and 10 touchdowns. De’John Edwards had 140 carries for 769 yards and seven touchdowns. Kendall Milton, former five star recruit, Ohio State was in on that in 2020. 85 carries for 592 yards and eight touchdowns and he missed two games. And then Branson Robinson.

He only played in 12 games, but he had 68 carries for 330 yards and three touchdowns. And then you get to start submitting with 57 carries. So you had four running backs with essentially seven carries, 70 carries. Now granted, to be fair, Georgia did not have Jeremiah Smith, Cornell, Tate, Brandon, and other wide receiver. Bowers had six or three catches. The only other person who had more than 50 catches was Labakonki. He was pretty good for the charges, by the way. He had 58.

And then the running back, McIntosh had 43. he, McIntosh got the ball a lot. It just wasn’t all in the run game. was in the passing game as well. So, I mean, this is the problem you have too many good players. That’s what I’ll say this year. They have too many good skill pairs, but I’m just the running stats alone. The fact that you had four guys essentially have 70 plus carries in a 15 game season where you won a national championship. I don’t think that’s off the table for Ohio state, especially the three. I don’t know if they can get.

of Branson Robinson that that might depend on as you’re talking about Stefan, Sam Williams, Dixon, a guy who hopped in the portal for a second hopped out of the portal and he admitted he was listening to the wrong people, which again, we’re living in this world. We’re in IELTS, the part of the conversation now that’s going to happen a lot more people listening to the wrong people. We’ve all listened to the wrong person before when we were young, right? This is

Stefan Krajisnik (36:57.438)

actively doing it.

Stephen Means (37:00.345)

thanks, man. Thanks. I’ll be quiet then. No, no, no, it’s cool. It’s cool. My feelings are hurt.

Andrew (37:05.367)

Well, mean, look, Stephen, you put the ball on the tee, handed Stephane a bat, and he just drove it into left field. And what was, I mean, he just did the right. just, it was right in front of him. He just, he took the opportunity that was presented in front of him. He was James Peoples.

Stephen Means (37:21.126)

No, it’s cool. It’s not like my feelings are hurt. It’s not like my feelings are hurt or anything like that. It’s cool. All right, well. Anything else we learned from the running back? No, I’m joking. No, but that was really good though. That was perfect. I’m actively doing it. The new one, though, what it was, was the emphasis on the word actively.

Andrew (37:38.062)

That was very good.

Andrew (37:46.55)

I’m so I’m just sitting there like looking like, did Stefan like text me? I’m just sitting there like it took me. was like, wait a minute. Did he? Is he talking about somebody else? wait, no.

Stephen Means (37:55.632)

no, I got it right away. Okay.

Stefan Krajisnik (37:57.497)

I think you made a great point, Steven. And I think your story on San William, Zixson was great. And I highly recommend people go read it because I thought he was very honest about, takes a lot of guts to like walk up there be like, I was listening to the wrong people. Like I made a bad decision. Like for someone as young as him to just straight up say that I think is good. And I think, I mean, I’ll come out and say it. Like I was one of the people who was wondering that he maybe just not find a great landing spot. And is he going to go back into the portal and April maybe.

Look at it again. mean, based on what he said, it sounds like he wants to be at Ohio State. I think his quote was, love being here. I love it here. Like maybe he listens to the wrong people and now he’s back talking to the right people.

Stephen Means (38:37.596)

The bigger thing is, listen, James, people’s had a relationship with Carlos Lachlan during the recruiting trail because he recruited him when he was still at Oregon. Sam Williams, Dixon didn’t really have a relationship with Carlos Lachlan, and we’ve all talked with Carlos now, right? Does he seem like a BS or to you guys, or does he seem like a talent like it is? Right. He almost tells it more like it is that it needs to be told. He goes over the top with it.

to a point because he’s trying to help these kids and it’s fine. But if that’s not your cup of tea, and you also don’t have an established relationship with the person to know to expect that. And when you get here, he had an interesting recruiting process already as a guy who wasn’t really sure he was going to be a long term running back or not. And then you get here and then to a weekend in spring practice, the guy you committed to says, I’m going to go to the rival school and said, and then they bring in a guy you’ve never met from Adam.

I can understand why he felt like last year was rough for him and it maybe got contentious at times, but they, as he said, they had to sit down and have some man to man conversations and they’re in a much better place here. So it seems like he’s a little bit more locked into being here. Cause I do agree with that. Ryan day says it’s a lot. have to choose to be here. Cause this is a lot. Ohio state. There are a lot of us there. Every time we have a media availability, there are a lot of people who have their eyes on Ohio state. So you have to be able to handle that.

And if you don’t actively choose it on your own, you’re gonna be in the portal, which is why, listen, it sounds like he’s actively chosen us on anything else people learned from the running backs. This is not the most vocal group in the world. So anything else anybody learned?

Stefan Krajisnik (40:20.232)

Not not go ahead, Andrew.

Andrew (40:20.438)

No, just... No, no, you should go first. Mine’s irrelevant.

Stefan Krajisnik (40:25.504)

I was going to say not, not specifically about the running backs. did all three of us kind of gloss over it on Monday. The idea of Brandon is kind of being used in handoffs and lining up in the backfield. It’s, not too different. Like Steven, you pointed out, it’s not too different from ways that a Mecca was used or even Xavier Johnson was used. Like it’s, it’s not necessarily shocking, but Ryan day did kind of say it on his own when talking about player versatility, about this idea of Brandon and his being used in the backfield of it. And I think that’s.

A very good idea.

Stephen Means (40:57.97)

You know what I was disappointed by?

Today’s running back there, we didn’t talk to Caleb down.

Stefan Krajisnik (41:05.592)

Yeah.

Andrew (41:05.741)

Mm-hmm

Stephen Means (41:09.594)

Sam that Ryan day you told me to be a running back and today was running back there. didn’t talk to him We’ll talk to him when we talk to the safeties in a couple of weeks here. It’s fine Okay, let’s take our final break here and then one revelation from each of us after watching two spring practices here on park I talk And we’re back in a bucket talk Stephen means the fun price they can Andrew Gillis after two days of spring practice from Ohio State and talking with Ryan day and then on Wednesday we talked with Billy Fessler the quarterbacks and Carlos Lachlan and

the running backs. Andrew, I’ll start with you. Biggest revelation after two days of watching people run around in shoulder pads and helmets.

Andrew (41:51.81)

Well, I’ll give you two things because quickly about the running backs. The conversation got brought up with Bo Jackson. Did you consider wearing 34? And he said, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Maybe we’ll have to see.

Stephen Means (42:06.578)

How many questions did he get about the fact that his name is Lamar Bo Jackson?

Andrew (42:10.574)

Well, a couple because I was like, well, your first name is Lamar, right? And you want, yeah. So again, he was, he was like, everybody’s like asking him all these questions about like, we’re in 34 and what it would mean to wear Bo Jackson’s number and be Bo Jackson and whatever. And I’m just like sitting there thinking to myself like, man, his real name is Lamar Jackson. Like his legal name is Lamar Jackson. So it’s Bo Jackson or Lamar Jackson. I just think that that’s really funny that he’s either living up to one of the greatest athletes.

Stephen Means (42:23.112)

So creative, guys.

Andrew (42:40.116)

ever. he’s, yeah, I was gonna say, well, I was gonna say one of the better quarterbacks of this generation, but I think that works as well. you know, I don’t know how much I think just kind of moving like broadly, I don’t know, I don’t know how much there is to look at this roster and say, wow, this is something that I didn’t expect, or this is crazy. I think there was a few notable things like, you

Stephen Means (42:40.894)

I’m one of the greatest athletes ever.

Stephen Means (42:49.374)

Nice server,

Andrew (43:10.094)

Boston Cereveld or Jermaine Matthews playing in the slot or whatever like there are a few like kind of interesting like huh.

Stefan Krajisnik (43:16.44)

Are you just gonna name everything?

Stephen Means (43:18.024)

That’s what I’m saying, just pick one, man!

Andrew (43:18.808)

Well, what I was just going to say was, think Devin Sanchez, when you see him move and you see him play, there’s not a, man, this might take some time or, man, this might take a little bit or, know, well, once he puts on 10 pounds, we’ll see in fall camp. Like we walked in and saw Devin Sanchez and went, yeah, he could play now. Like today.

Stefan Krajisnik (43:20.074)

the

Andrew (43:48.44)

tomorrow, next week, last week, a month from now. Like we looked at him and went, he is one of the most physically impressive corners in that room. And I just, it’s more than just the size and the weight and the way that he looks compared to these other guys, because obviously that’s a huge part of it when somebody is supposed to be in their spring semester of their senior year of high school. But not only does he look the part, he just moves like it too.

You know, you he looks fluid when he, you know, when they go through drills again, like they’re not in paths, they’re not hitting, they’re not doing a ton of work. like maybe this is me just kind of like, you know, being a little overzealous, but if I’m to be overzealous about anybody that we’ve seen two days, I’m going to be overzealous about Devin Sanchez because he just looks like one of them dudes. And I said the other day, he’s one of the ones. And that to me, I think when, when, because we’re not going to get to see him now for a couple of weeks, I think.

My lasting impressions of Devin Sanchez were like, this is not made up. This is not, wow, maybe this kid needs some time. Yeah, he might just be the most talented, second most talented, third most talented corner on this team right now, but him being a starter very soon is not unreasonable in the slightest.

Stephen Means (45:12.606)

So Mike told me if he hasn’t impressed his brain, he’s gonna start.

Stephen Means (45:20.766)

That’s all I have to say about that.

Andrew (45:23.774)

I, well, if I could say one more thing about it, we were standing in the Woody and they were like stretching and like, you know, there wasn’t a lot going on. And I looked, I looked at Stephen and Stefan and I said, they could kick us out right now as long as they line Jeremiah up in full pads with Devin across from him and say, Jeremiah run a go and Devin’s going to cover him and everybody will get to record it. That’d get us through the day. And Stephen, Stefan turns around and goes,

Stephen Means (45:48.52)

to the mall.

Andrew (45:51.266)

That’d get us through May. I just started laughing. was like, yeah, that’s not wrong. just the hype train for me. That was probably my biggest realization of these two days was the hype train for Devin Sanchez should not be slowing down. It should not be, you know, over talked about it. This is this is a thing. This is real.

Stephen Means (45:53.083)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (46:13.666)

Can I be the first to say something not positive on this topic? And granted, I literally came on Buckeye Talk on Tuesday and talked about how impressive Devin Sanchez looked. And now I’ve heard everyone on the beat talk about impressive Devin Sanchez looks. Can I take a step back for a moment and say, are we surprised that the guy who was the number one corner in the country and the number four player in the class who added 20 pounds this off season looks great without pads?

Andrew (46:18.232)

Please.

Stefan Krajisnik (46:44.48)

Like, were we expecting anything different particularly?

Stephen Means (46:48.36)

Well, I mean that’s a good question.

Andrew (46:51.79)

I mean, seeing is believing to some extent, and I think it is different when you get that in person.

Stefan Krajisnik (46:54.354)

Yeah, I get that. But it’s like you told me the best freshman that Ohio State has arguably, I mean, can argue him or Tavian, whatever. You I’m just gonna say for this argument that Devin Sanchez is the best freshman in class. And you told me that he just had a few months with an Ohio State like shrink staff. He’s obviously going to look the best.

Stephen Means (47:14.462)

Yeah, but we were talking about this stuff when we were standing. This freshman class physically is a little more advanced than most. So he’s advanced amongst, and a lot of that is there’s all but three of them are here and have been here since mid December as early enrollees and that’s become more of a thing. But it does seem like really the last couple of years, there’s been a lot, being an elite true freshman is not as uncommon.

Right when Trevor Lawrence did it, it was like, whoa, two wouldn’t come on until literally the second half of the national championship game. They’re extremely when he was doing at LSU in 2019, which somebody put this on somewhere on the internet, but.

There’s some LSU comparisons here. Because LSU had Jamar Chase, who was in his second year, and Derek Stingley as the true freshman, and they were going up against each other in practice every single day.

And I’m wondering if this is Ohio State’s over. Oh, I mean, what does that mean for little Julian? I don’t know, man. I mean, I don’t know, man. But I’m just saying in terms of like Derek Stingley and Jamar Chase spent the year going up against each other. And unfortunately, that was it because Jamar opted out in 2020 because of COVID and whatnot. Derek Stingley was still there and everything. And LSU wasn’t as prominent as a program after 2019 because they were losing.

Andrew (48:19.212)

No, no, no, no, no.

Stephen Means (48:39.326)

Still, I’ve been thinking about that. Is this Ohio State’s version of that? What LSU had with Jamar and Derek Stingley in 2019? But the point I’m making is we were saying that this is a more physically impressive group. And also sometimes you just want to validate it, right? There’s a way you walk around as just a normal human being when you’re at a game as a visitor or you’re at a camp, right? And then you see him in pads because that’s what you’re actually here to do, right? That’s...

We had not seen the version of Devin Sanchez that was the number one player in the number one corner back in the 2025 recruiting class. We had seen Devin Sanchez, a teenager taking visits to Ohio State. Andrew, know you, I don’t know if you were on the beat yet when he did the camp. You might not have been. No, but we had seen Devin Sanchez, a teenager.

Andrew (49:30.115)

I have.

Stephen Means (49:33.662)

And for two practices, we’ve just seen Devon says as a football player. It was the same thing with Jeremiah Smith. We had seen Jeremiah Smith, the teenager who’s a really good football player. Now we’re seeing what the football player looks like. And it’s like, OK, can we see him go up against the other number four and see who wins? Please.

Stefan Krajisnik (49:46.328)

Thank

Stefan Krajisnik (49:51.064)

Yeah, maybe our brain is just programmed when we saw the guy wearing number four who’s a true freshman. We were like, I like it.

Stephen Means (49:58.664)

I mean, it didn’t hurt. It didn’t hurt.

Stefan Krajisnik (50:01.048)

Yeah, no, I agree. I’m very bad at playing the devil’s advocate role, but I did my best there.

Stephen Means (50:05.8)

Yeah, you’re not good at it. You’re not enough of a hater to do it.

Stefan Krajisnik (50:09.196)

Yeah, that’s a good point. I buy into the hype too much. Speaking of being a hater, apparently this revelation wasn’t good enough that Gillis just thought, know, mentioning it in passing was all that it was worth. I’ll talk about Jermaine Matthews getting some play at the Nickel Spot. I guess Nickel Slot works too.

Stephen Means (50:12.254)

Yeah, you gotta lean into the hate. But go ahead.

Stephen Means (50:26.75)

If you did, I would.

Stefan Krajisnik (50:32.086)

This ties into the Devon Sanchez conversation and Aaron Scott enters this conversation too of Stephen, let’s do a thought thought exercise. I want you to name pretend it’s August, pretend it’s August 30th. So we’ve gone through the off season. Who are Ohio state’s three best cornerbacks?

Stephen Means (50:57.54)

Iggy, Jermaine.

And for the sake of not just being hyperbolic for being hyperbolic, I would say that Aaron Scott and Devin Sanchez are 3A and 3B.

Stefan Krajisnik (51:15.128)

Okay, I’m in agreement with you. Andrew, do you agree? Andrew nods his head. Okay, if those are your best three and you’re going nickel and you’ve got three corners on the field, why not have your best three on the field? And if that combination is what we think it is, then why not have Davidson on the outside, Jermaine moved to the nickel and Aaron Scott or Devin Sanchez on the other side.

And I think Ohio state is, I don’t want to say like preparing themselves for it, but putting them and putting themselves in a position where if that is the case, they can do that. And I think we, you, Steven, you had mentioned when we did our videos, I’m pretty sure against Nebraska, Jermaine did get some role, some, some playing time in the nickel. So it’s not completely new to him and he’s practiced there in the past. And last, last spring you said he practiced there. So like, it’s not new, but we saw him there today when they did like mock 11 on 11 drills. And then it was a second team. Lorenzo was the first team, Nicole. should say that.

But then when they did the second team, Jermaine was in the slot and then they were doing a drill later. That was literally just like, it was kind of like a nickel outside drill and Jermaine was in the nickel covering the slot receiver and whoever was with him was, was on the outside. Like it’s clear that they want this to be an option. And when you go to two corners, like when you’re, when you don’t have the nickel on the field, that doesn’t mean take Jermaine off the field. That means, okay, Devin Sanchez, you come off Jermaine, you go back to the outside.

Stephen Means (52:14.523)

And.

Stefan Krajisnik (52:43.736)

And then boom, Davidson and Jermaine are your two corners. That’s fine. But when you do have that nickel, why not have Jermaine move to the nickel and have your third best corner, whoever it may be, be the guy that steps in. I don’t hate the idea. Frankly, I think I like the idea. And if you were to tell me right now, give me the starting 11 with the nickel on the field. I think that’s what I would jot down.

Stephen Means (53:13.052)

Yeah, they installed cover one and cover three today. So that’s what a lot of the drills were, were the responsibilities of the slug on the outside guy on both sides of the field. One more thing about Devin, I just thought about this.

He’s picking up on things very fast. So the physical part of it is what it is, but the quicker he picks up on this stuff, the quicker he’s able to take information from the classroom to the field, the more, I guess the more the hype train will build on itself, right? Because he can be as talented as he wants to be, but if he doesn’t know what he’s doing out there, they’re not gonna put him on the field. But if they trust him to know what he’s doing out there, and it seems like your two practices,

Even if it’s a lot of walkthroughs and installs, he seems to be very quickly picking up on things and so that helps. I agree with you. And so I brought it to somebody today on Wednesday that I agreed with you so much. And I literally brought up that idea of that. And they said, I don’t hate it.

Which is, it’s not a no, but it’s not a yes, but it’s not a no either. I could see a world where they’re doing that. But again, this is all gonna depend on two things. And I’m gonna ask Tim Walton a dumb question next time we talk with the cornerbacks. And I’m gonna ask Lorenzo Stiles at two. How different is dime from nickel? Because I think in simple terms, both of them are the inside guy. It’s just.

dime is when you have four corners, nickel is when you have three, right? So it’s, it’s how big of a difference is it in terms of a learning curve? Because if Lorenzo’s already been the backup nickel and he’s been playing that dime role specifically, and it seems like they trust him the most, then this is not really that much of a conversation. We’re having a who’s better talent wise conversation, not a.

Stephen Means (55:17.138)

Who knows what they’re doing better conversation? Because the reason I’m asking that is, is it easier for Jermaine Matthews, who’s been repping part-time at Nickel full-time at outside, to pick up Nickel full-time and be a starter there than it is for Jermaine, excuse me, for Lorenzo Styles to pick up on it when that’s all he’s been doing for two years versus maybe Aaron Scott or Devin Sanchez just being ready to be your outside corner. It’s a lot of variables.

I just do a lot at you. don’t even know if that all of that makes sense. But I think it’s the bigger point here, Andrews, they’ve got some options for what they want to do. Do you want your best three players out there at all times? Or do you want the three players you trust the most? And I don’t think those are the same two answers, right?

Andrew (56:07.49)

Yeah, I don’t think I think that’s fair. I think there’s a lot of options and it’s. It’s really like, what do you think is the best defense and best combination for Ohio State in particular situations? What do you think is the best defense in most situations like? Maybe plan four corners against Texas is not the craziest thing you’ve ever heard of.

I don’t like there’s a lot of ways that you can do this and I’m just I’m interested to see how they play it out.

Stephen Means (56:50.792)

Stefan, let me ask you, would you say CJ Hicks' stock is significantly high right now? what would you, one through 10, 10 being the highest it could possibly be, one being it does not exist, where would you put CJ Hicks' stock?

Stefan Krajisnik (57:05.56)

I think it’s like out of five. I don’t think it’s really too high or too low because I think there are, there’s probably people who are very high on him and pumped to see him kind of fully moved to that DN role and see what he could do there. But I wonder if there’s also kind of the opposite, maybe the Jelani Thurman discussion of like, are there some people who are kind of just done hearing about, you know, his potential and what he can be. And they just want to see it before they believe it.

Andrew (57:33.474)

Well, I think CJ Hicks' stock is very interesting to me, at least because if this was truly a stock market, I don’t know how many other players have been as much buy and sell in short amount of time as CJ Hicks. I think last off season it was all buy, and then you get to the season and it was starting to sell, and then you get to the end of the season, it was really sell, and then you get to the off season and it’s like, we buy again.

Feels like right now we’re at the point where it’s like, okay, like what is CJ Hicks is optimal role, optimum, maximized role at Ohio State. Is he a starting defensive end? Like, is he starting next to Kenyatta or Kayden on defense van? Like, is that what’s going to happen here? Yeah, I mean, like that, but that’s the thing. It’s like, he’s listed at six, three, two, 33. So it’s like, is he going to be?

Stefan Krajisnik (58:22.368)

Is it double-digit sax?

Andrew (58:32.94)

I just, we just, still don’t know. And I’m not saying they don’t know. It’s just, we don’t know if he’s going to play a hybrid role. We don’t know how much he’s going to play. We don’t know if he’s going to be in like a Mitchell Melton type of role. Like we saw last year where he was almost like a situational pass rusher. And it’s like, you really buying that high on a situational pass rusher? It’s just, I don’t know. It feels like this stock has kind of been like a roller coaster with CJ and you know, there’s been, Hey, this guy’s going to explode onto the scene this year.

Hey, this guy is probably going to transfer. Hey, this guy, this or this guy, that, and it feels like we’re still trying to figure that out. We’re still trying to figure out like what is next.

Stephen Means (59:11.036)

Repeat what he’s listed out right now.

Andrew (59:13.346)

He is listed at 63233.

Stephen Means (59:16.126)

Okay, 2.33 in the spring.

I wonder if they are gonna try to get him up to 240.

Andrew (59:23.296)

I was gonna say like, if you get up to like, because at 233, you’re probably not in every down defense event, unless you were playing that hybrid role.

Stephen Means (59:28.638)

Well, I don’t know, because Ryan, they said he’s, I don’t know, because Ryan, they saying even though he’s only two 33, he’s a lot stronger than that. He can push the people around. I think a lot of that is he’s super fast. And so if you’re turning speed, the power consistently like that, then you can knock guys off their rocker. Michael Parsons is six, three, two 45. I knew Carter’s a little, I’m not Carter is bigger than I thought he was. He’s six, three, two 60.

Well, 259. Yeah, Penn State really poured it on him. Well, at least he wasn’t as playing right now. I think his combine was 251, but still 63250.

It’s pretty big for a 6-3 guy who is essentially in the mold that I think we’re all thinking about with CJ Hicks, right? If we’re talking CJ Hicks to defensive end, we’re talking guys like Abdul Carter, Michael Parsons, Von Miller. And I understand those are the best of the best in that group, but we’re using them as examples because that’s who most people know. But that’s the idea of if this hits,

the best possible way it could hit for a guy who was still a top 10 recruit. That’s what it looks like. Micah Parsons at Penn State, Abdul Carter at Penn State, really more Abdul Carter because Micah Parsons was a full-time linebacker at Penn State. And then he got to the Cowboys and was getting out to the Passers and Jerry Jones went, yeah, we’re going to put your hand in the ground. Speaking of which.

I’ve been watching the quarterbacks first few practices, but that only gets you so far with the way they’ve been doing things. So I’ve also watched a little bit of everything else. I have not seen CJ Hicks' hand in the dirt yet. On a single snap. Granted, sometimes defensive ends are up. They’re not always hand in the dirt. Sometimes it’s both hands in the dirt. Sometimes it’s one. Sometimes it’s none. It depends on how they’re lining up and what the scheme and the play calls for.

Stephen Means (01:01:33.296)

He’s going to be a defensive manager. This is not a specialized role. I think he’s going to start. And I think if he has at least eight sacks this year, I won’t be surprised. In fact, I think he might have more than that if this really hits. I don’t know why I’m putting so much stock into this, but we’ve been in there for two days and I have seen him hanging around Matt Patricia a lot. Just talking and I know there’s a...

video clip going around Twitter of him and Matt Patricia having their arms around each other for Monday, but that was happening again on Wednesday. And I keep going back to James Laura Knight is saying the moment we hired Matt Patricia, the first person I thought of was CJ. And I keep thinking about those Patriots defenses. How many traditional four men front defensive linemen do you remember? No, you remember the linebackers, the outside edge rushers. I think, and I told CJ this today.

I think Matt Patricia was the best thing that’s happened to CJ Hicks his career here. Now he’s got to go out there and take full advantage of it. Right? This is, this is all hypothetical and in theory and which is what he is still four years and he’s still a theory, which is why Stefan you put him out of five because there are some people who are still bought into that theory and there are some people who are ready to move on to new theories.

think I’m gonna buy a lot of stock in CJ after two practices simply because I just think Matt Patricia is a match made in heaven for what he is as a football player. is the, he’s not the six foot five, 260 plus defensive lineman who sets the edge, stops the run and every so often he can get out to the passer. No, he is the six foot three, 240 pound edge rusher.

who on third down and seven, you are in trouble as an offense. Which is why when they played Penn State, we said, as long as they keep Donovan Jackson in the third and long situations, he will handle it. And he did. And then they got in third long situations and Abdul Carter said, I’m going to handle you. And he did. I’m not saying this means TJ Hicks is going to be the defensive player that you’re in the big time, but I do think that Matt Patricia might just actually unlock TJ Hicks.

Stephen Means (01:03:51.832)

And I love that visual of seeing them two side by side where I’m not thinking about Jack Soren, JT, Tui Moloa, and what they were defensive ends when I’m thinking about CJ Hicks. I am when I’m thinking about Kaden Curry and Kenyatta Jackson because they are more in that mold.

But what if it’s a 335?

What if he doesn’t have his hand in the dirt most of the time? It doesn’t mean he can’t stop the run. It doesn’t mean he hasn’t spent the last eight months between now when they play Texas, learning all the tricks of the trade from Larry Johnson. It just means he is an element Ohio State has really never had as a pass rusher and a guy that looks a little bit different, but he is a problem in the pass game for other teams because of

Size, speed, athleticism.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:04:48.832)

Yeah, I’m with you. I’m buying stock on CJ and what he can be in. And I guess my, one thing I would say to people who are done buying CJ stock because of what you said there, like it just feels like a project. And at some point you probably just get annoyed hearing about the project. My advice would be you were selling stock on CJ cause it just wasn’t working out as a linebacker and you thought he should have been more of a defensive end. And now he is like, there is no question about what position he is playing.

So if you thought to yourself, this guy is better in this role, like we promise you, like he is in that role. This is not us like saying like, Jim Noll should use him there more. Like, no, this is him. Like he is there. He is playing defensive end. There’s no question about it. So if you’re on edge, because you feel like you’ve heard this before, like it is happening in practice. Like it’s, it’s going on. Like this is not a hypothetical anymore. Like CJ Hicks is a defensive end. He’s a very versatile defensive end.

what he can do because he started his career as a linebacker and has been a linebacker most of his career. Like he is, he is versatile and he has a defensive end and I’m with you, Steven. I think he’s going to have a great year. Also, it was hilarious. He was, he sat through about basically the whole Julian, Julian St. Press conference. And I heard him like say at one point he was like, I’m just kind of interested. I think he just wanted to know like what, Julian had to say.

Stephen Means (01:06:03.366)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (01:06:07.389)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (01:06:10.77)

Yeah, you’ll get used to that. likes to hang around. Time One Malone was hanging around too. Kenyatta Jackson hangs around. The players like to hang around. They do it more in fall camp.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:06:20.344)

I’m always hanging around with CJ Donaldson, I think. Yeah.

Stephen Means (01:06:23.644)

Yeah, they do it. Hirokanu before he transferred, did it a lot too. They’ll do it at weird times. They just like to hang around and mess with each other. It’s weird. It’s fun. No, it’s not weird. It’s fun. The reason I’m buying stock, I’m not buying stock in what you just said, the Jim Knowles version of CJ. I am buying stock in, Ohio State’s got a player it’s never really had before, but now they have a defensive coordinator who knows how to use, they have a toy.

Essentially, it’s like somebody bought you a toy, but you have no idea what to do with this toy Okay, so then you give the toy away But you give it to somebody who knows how to use the toy and how to play with it how to assemble it How to maximize it because he’s won Super Bowls maximizing that toy So it’s as much as it is about CJ Hicks and one he’s getting off the ball quick.

That athleticism is showing. I know they haven’t gone up against anybody. We saw literally one snap of offense versus defense and Julian Sam was a starting quarterback.

Stephen Means (01:07:31.644)

I’m buying stock in Matt, Patricia and CJ Hicks and that marriage and what it could be. And it’s because I have that visual in my head of two days in a row, I’m seeing those two look like they’re in love with each other from a coach player perspective.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:07:46.334)

I also, there was also one drill where it’s like, yeah, there’s only so much you can learn from these practices when a lot of these are drills. There was one drill that they were doing where I was like, CJ Hicks on that first move and that first step is quicker than everyone working with him. Like it’s noticeable.

Stephen Means (01:07:59.836)

Yes, yes. Now make that third and seven. In a key moment of the game on August 30th and let’s see what happens. That’s all I’m saying. I’m Matt Patricia is the first offensive coordinator they’ve had in here in a long time who. Can actually maximize whatever CJ Hicks is supposed to be and so let’s see if he does it and in the meantime get the text 614.

3 5 0 3 1 5 that will wrap up the first week of spring practice at least for us. We’re not going to be in there on Friday when they put on pod pads. In fact, the next time right now we’re scheduled to be at practice is April 5th for the student appreciation day. So that’s about a week and a half from now, but we’ll be in the woody a lot over the next couple of weeks talking with different position groups, talking with Ryan day. We’re back on Monday where we’ll talk with Dave, Patricia and Brian heartline, which I think will be some interesting conversations because I have noticed that

Brian Hartline’s got a headset on walking around practice and there’s a point in practice and I know we’ve all noticed it where they have two different things going on at the same time. And I’m wondering if Brian Hartline’s getting his mental reps in two, but also he’s talking to the two quarterbacks and giving them the play call and then they go into the huddle. And this is why they have it set up that way. So it’d be interesting to see how that process is going for Brian Hartline, also Matt Patricia has gotten a chance to see these guys play some football for three practices by the time we talk to them on Monday. So get the text 614.

3-5-0-3-3-1-5, two week free trial, 399 after that. For Stefan Kreistick and Andrew Gillis, I’m Stephen Means. That was, okay talk.